tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6412826294594900386.post3441841127772687849..comments2023-04-12T08:12:17.855-05:00Comments on yellowarmadillos: Healthcare and Nonprofit OrganizationsAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12068839756237461498noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6412826294594900386.post-78504546080108313262012-05-28T09:16:52.981-05:002012-05-28T09:16:52.981-05:00The point of control is whoever has skin in the ga...The point of control is whoever has skin in the game. Instead of hiding cost and telling everyone it is free make it painfully clear who pays – at ever point in the process. Make it a goal to never hear the phrase “Oh, insurance will pay for that.”Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07669679191229234850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6412826294594900386.post-10195513458766937172012-05-28T08:53:21.746-05:002012-05-28T08:53:21.746-05:00In your mind what would be the cost minimizing mec...In your mind what would be the cost minimizing mechanism?Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15369904006603461803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6412826294594900386.post-67267885813819663252012-05-28T06:06:41.177-05:002012-05-28T06:06:41.177-05:00I am not opposed to a single payer either.I am not opposed to a single payer either.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07669679191229234850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6412826294594900386.post-57264064853441862632012-05-28T01:22:49.135-05:002012-05-28T01:22:49.135-05:00April 17??
I am indifferent to any difference betw...April 17??<br />I am indifferent to any difference between the meanings of "moderate" and "centrist".Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12068839756237461498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6412826294594900386.post-77936446264523290042012-05-28T00:50:19.497-05:002012-05-28T00:50:19.497-05:00Well nuts! Now I am going to develop an obsession...Well nuts! Now I am going to develop an obsession about finding it. If I'm the only one that recalls that exchange then there may be some doubt that it even took place. I remember it well. And I did not dream it or imagine it.<br /><br />Also Wayne I would point out that your post of April 17 about Centrist includes some quotes from a writer who seems to use centrist interchangeably with moderate. My understanding of the word moderate means moderate conservative or moderate or a liberal moderate. Do you see moderate and centrist as the same thing?Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15369904006603461803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6412826294594900386.post-42410894075811181522012-05-27T23:30:51.507-05:002012-05-27T23:30:51.507-05:00You can find my statement on national health care ...You can find my statement on national health care in the post <a href="http://yellowarmadillos.blogspot.com/2010/06/national-health-care-1.html" rel="nofollow">national-health-care-1</a>.<br /><br />PS I did not delete any of your comments.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12068839756237461498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6412826294594900386.post-56204890958835237652012-05-27T22:04:29.377-05:002012-05-27T22:04:29.377-05:00Having searched through previous comments I don...Having searched through previous comments I don't find that exchange. In fact, it appeared to me that other of my comments were missing. As much as I would love to provide a reference I can't. <br /><br />I know that you have stated plainly that you favor a single payer system, as I do. Do you favor a government administrator as with Medicare, a corporate one, or a nonprofit tax-exempt organization, and why? I'm just asking you to flesh out your thoughts out a little more. You have clearly given it a fair amount of thought. <br /><br />And Tom is in favor of a national health insurance plan also, but was skeptical about the ability of a government granted monopoly's ability to control costs. Tom, wouldn't any single payer system have that weakness because of lack of competition? Or maybe there is another type of national health insurance plan that would bing competitive forces to bear?<br /><br />Just a bit more analysis to help me to understand exactly what is being advocated and why. Single payer system doesn't <br />tell me much. Inquiring minds want to know.Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15369904006603461803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6412826294594900386.post-41826891077461707562012-05-27T18:35:00.226-05:002012-05-27T18:35:00.226-05:00In my example I was a generic TVA customer me for ...In my example I was a generic TVA customer me for demonstration purposes. Not the real me. You and the fake me would pay higher prices for electricity, but theoretically less in income taxes because of the decrease in government subsidies. Somehow I doubt that you and fake me will feel any difference in our income taxes. At least that's my thought. So, as far as I can tell we would just end up paying more for electricity.Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15369904006603461803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6412826294594900386.post-88190564047511274952012-05-27T15:30:14.753-05:002012-05-27T15:30:14.753-05:00You said: "Also, in Wayne's example, I w...You said: "Also, in Wayne's example, I would pay more for my electricity and he would pay less for my electricity. But He would pay more for his electricity and I would less less for his electricity. (Need a flow chart?)"<br /><br />Your description of my example is not correct unless you also get your electricity from the TVA.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12068839756237461498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6412826294594900386.post-11241782419388853882012-05-27T15:25:18.585-05:002012-05-27T15:25:18.585-05:00Bruce, There is nothing wrong with being criticiz...Bruce, There is nothing wrong with being criticized or criticizing I was just asking you to tell me where that had happened because I wanted to see it. I asked for a reference not an apology. I have stated plainly that I favor a single payer plan (which seems to me to be inconsistent with your judgment that I am a conservative masquerading as a centrist). So I wondered what it was that you considered criticism. Could I get the reference?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12068839756237461498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6412826294594900386.post-56072281531448383552012-05-27T13:02:02.968-05:002012-05-27T13:02:02.968-05:00The benefits advertised...the reason we the consum...The benefits advertised...the reason we the consumers were given as to why deregulation was something that we should be in favor of...was lower prices for the customers. Benefit to whom? Lower prices for customers. <br /><br />I must admit I had to look up "the TVA" but having done so I see that it is a government owned monopoly. And that most definitely is one type of government enforced monopoly, but not the only kind. In my example the nonprofit administrator would be regulated, but not owned by the government. <br /><br />If anything outside the box of the free market is a red flag in ones mind, it's not likely that one will be able to get comfortable with any kind of government granted monopoly. I believe that the history shows that the free market is not a magic bullet. Controlled it can accomplish great things, but not ALL things.<br /><br />Also, in Wayne's example, I would pay more for my electricity and he would pay less for my electricity. But He would pay more for his electricity and I would less less for his electricity. (Need a flow chart?) Seems like a potential wash. But bottom line, we would BOTH be paying more for our electricity, and to whose benefit? My electricity just got more expensive so that dividends could be paid to an owner.<br /><br />The electricity monopoly we used to have in Oklahoma City was not owned by the government, and in fact, I believe it's business form was a corporation (OG&E). So, we were paying for dividends in that particular case, albeit they had to be approved by the oversight board. (And on a personal note, they helped me through college with a couple of small scholarship checks.)<br /><br />Monopolies were granted not just for the economies of scale argument but also because the services that were granted monopolies we considered absolutely necessary for the security and economy of our country, and it was felt that the monopoly would not be subjected to the chaotic forces of the market that could effect private providers and perhaps render them less able, or even unable, to adequately provide these necessary services. Can your say "Enron"? Can we all say "rolling blackouts", which I experienced last summer and may experience again this summer I'm told. <br /><br />Wayne I apologize if I gave you, or anyone else, the impression that I thought that I was being criticized. That did not cross my mind. My purpose in readdressing this issue was:<br /><br />1. I feel strongly that it is the best option, in terms of cost savings and providing healthcare services to the most, of any I have heard or read about.<br /><br />2. I inferred from the critiques my previous post received that my statement that we need to get the profit motive out of healthcare was greatly misunderstood. So after giving myself some time to rethink how to present my case, I tried it again. A real time waster, but helpful in that it helped me to gather my thoughts again on the subject.Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15369904006603461803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6412826294594900386.post-3900312585170924942012-05-27T07:09:41.495-05:002012-05-27T07:09:41.495-05:00Allen, I think the electric industry is a good ref...Allen, I think the electric industry is a good reference point here. The REA (Rural Electrification Administration) would in my opinion be a success story in that it brought affordable electricity to rural America years before private enterprise would have done so. The ratio of infrastructure cost necessary to provide electricity to a sparsely populated area is far less attractive than the ratio in a densely populated area. The REA make rural rates comparable to those in metropolitan areas by providing low interest loans available to non-for-profit electrical COOPs. It worked and electrical lights were turned on in rural America. <br /><br />I think the REA was a good program, but the costs are what they costs are and the rates to rural farmers were subsidized by the rest of America through low interest loans to COOPs, tax free status to COOPs, and the availability of government grants to COOPs following natural disasters. <br /><br />I totally agree that the concept of electrical COOP was good for the country, but I perceive the consequences of non-profit status for COOPs as a cost shuffle as opposed to a saving or economy due to their non-profit status.<br /><br />I do not have the stats regarding rates following deregulation of electrical rates in TX readily available, (perhaps you can direct us to a credible web site?) but as a consumer of electricity in TX my perceptions of rate increases following deregulation is favorable.<br /><br />On last thought on electrical COOPS. Many of these COOPS now provide electrical service to densely populated areas that could profitable be served by a for profit provider. In cases where the rates between for profit and not-for-profit providers are comparable I would suggest that the continued existence of the non-profit (and subsidized) provider is unfair to tax payers and should be revoked.<br /><br />p.s. I was the CFO for a not-for-profit electrical COOP in TX from 1987-1993. During those years our primary motive to control rates was to remain competitive with the for-profits.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07669679191229234850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6412826294594900386.post-55556452843628335982012-05-26T15:37:36.297-05:002012-05-26T15:37:36.297-05:00One question that should be asked is benefits for ...One question that should be asked is benefits for whom? Have you checked how much the "not-for-profit" was being subsidized? For example I am quite confident that if the TVA were sold to private companies , i.e. deregulated, my rates would go up too. But I think that that would be because the government subsidy that I enjoy would disappear. I would pay more for my electricity and you would pay less - for my electricity.<br /><br />PS Bruce said at the beginning of this post he was criticized for an earlier post. Which one was that?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12068839756237461498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6412826294594900386.post-27277810484945140722012-05-26T13:46:49.806-05:002012-05-26T13:46:49.806-05:00Allen thanks for that. I was thinking of the old ...Allen thanks for that. I was thinking of the old electric utilities too. But I didn't have any stats. My impression is that deregulation has not provided the benefits advertized.Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15369904006603461803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6412826294594900386.post-31082616723699916722012-05-25T10:16:10.508-05:002012-05-25T10:16:10.508-05:00I'm not sure the following example is perfectl...I'm not sure the following example is perfectly applicable, but it's one I have a great deal of experience with. Has anyone looked at industries that feature a single government/not-for-profit provider vs a free-market solution? I'm thinking specifically of the electric utility industry in Texas. It was deregulated in 2000-2001, moving from several regions with sole providers to an open market. Since that time, costs have soared, while our costs in Oklahoma have remained relatively stable. I believe today, we pay just a little over half of the average price per Kwh in Texas. <br /><br />This difference can largely be attributed to deadbeat customers that run up large balances and then move to another provider, leaving the paying customers to foot the bill, not unlike our current healthcare system. As I said, this is not a perfect example, but perhaps it will provide a little food for thought.Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08846255651071707103noreply@blogger.com