tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6412826294594900386.post8264802708114448970..comments2023-04-12T08:12:17.855-05:00Comments on yellowarmadillos: Race 7 A discussion on RaceAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12068839756237461498noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6412826294594900386.post-13354522513341415042014-03-08T07:29:21.492-06:002014-03-08T07:29:21.492-06:00Another example of zero tolerance nonsense - http:...Another example of zero tolerance nonsense - http://kwgn.com/2014/03/04/school-suspends-5th-grader-for-making-fingers-into-shape-of-gun/ Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07669679191229234850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6412826294594900386.post-56336534690182580612014-02-23T06:03:32.299-06:002014-02-23T06:03:32.299-06:00I stand corrected. It was not a sandwich it was a...I stand corrected. It was not a sandwich it was a “pop tart”. See this link http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/boy-suspended-gun-shaped-pop-tart-lifetime-nra-membership-article-1.1359918Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07669679191229234850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6412826294594900386.post-44542381162036002322014-02-22T12:28:52.114-06:002014-02-22T12:28:52.114-06:00Really? The sandwich gun thing happened?Really? The sandwich gun thing happened?Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15369904006603461803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6412826294594900386.post-11831909677554893922014-02-22T07:14:25.872-06:002014-02-22T07:14:25.872-06:00Attaching real consequences to filing a false clai...Attaching real consequences to filing a false claim of racism would/could reduce the filing of false claims and would/could, as Bruce suggests, prevent some legitimate complaints from being filed. <br /><br /> I am going to stubbornly stick to my conviction that all people should recognize, as a basis truth, that all actions have consequences. If an individual files a false police report they can be charged, tried and jailed. I see the rational for punishment of a “wrong” to be the same in the case of an intentional false claim of racism?<br /><br />Moving beyond intentionally false claims to claims that are false but not intentional is stickier because we get into the realm of perceptions. Still, a false claim (as Wayne’s example shows) can cause the accused to incur an extraordinary expenditure of time and money regardless of the motives or convictions. For that reason I think the filing of all claims should have potential consequences to the filer. Perhaps something in the same context as having to pay court costs or actual damages if you lose a civil suit.<br /><br />I agree with Wayne that the problem with the current system is that there is no accountability for the filer. Giving the EEOC Officer the power of claim dismissal might help, but my guess is that the dismissal rate would be zero because the Office would want to avoid a claim of racism. We could give the Officer some help in making unfettered decisions by giving them immunity from removal as we do some judges. <br /><br />Any system that is inflexible (claims cannot be dismissed) is subject to the “silliness factor”. A good example is the “zero tolerance” policy in public schools that results in a child being suspended for chewing a sandwich into the shape of a gun.<br /><br />Since I have no better suggestion I will go with Wayne’s suggestion that the EEOC Office be given the power to dismiss claims.<br />Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07669679191229234850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6412826294594900386.post-40822444121478645022014-02-21T12:03:37.527-06:002014-02-21T12:03:37.527-06:00Well first off, even if it is determined that the ...Well first off, even if it is determined that the claim is illegitimate, you probably don't want to impose a disciplinary action on the filer. That would undermine access by scaring people off from filing a legitimate claim.<br /><br />But I think that you can do something to make it "more perfect". A recent case (extremely unfounded) of which I am aware dragged on for 7 months eventually ending with a judgment of no racism which was clearly the appropriate result based on the complaint. I have heard (but not confirmed) that since then that organization has revised its rules so that in the future the EEOC officer can (if appropriate) determine that there is no racism involved and convert the complaint into an ordinary grievance and pass it on to the the appropriate supervisory personnel. That seems to me to be a major improvement without a downside. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12068839756237461498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6412826294594900386.post-14341198408269839092014-02-21T10:34:13.266-06:002014-02-21T10:34:13.266-06:00Very well said, Wayne. You have laid out the raci...Very well said, Wayne. You have laid out the racism "rock" and "hard place" very well. It is clear that you have given this a great deal of quality thought. In fact I know you have because I have read your multi-part post on this subject. I would not pretend to know what the "modification of this system that would maintain the basic protections needed for minorities and give the EEOC Officer the authority to deal with inappropriate attacks" would be that would assure that the new system would be any less vulnerable to abuse, or even ineffectiveness.<br /><br />A while back there was a discussion on the YA about the perfect being the enemy of the good. There is little doubt that the current system has, over its lifetime, done a world of good. Might an insistence on it being perfect, or closer to perfect, shift the balance of power back to the racist underbelly of our Country...just a little? Just as in certain states that could not wait even one day after the Supreme Court struck down parts of the Civil Rights Act regarding voter protection to change their voter registration rules. Perhaps those state's motivations were pure as the driven snow. But we do know that states can get momentum going to justify racism by not calling it racism because we have seen it in our history...in our lifetimes.<br /><br />So while I agree with your assessment that the current system is flawed, and in the way that you say it is flawed, I am a uncomfortable about tinkering with it. For instance when you suggest that the EEOC Officer be given the authority to "deal with" inappropriate attacks, I feel almost certain that however they are "dealt with" there will be persons with legitimate complaints who will then think twice about bringing those complaints for fear that their complaint would be incorrectly or unfairly ruled to be illegitimate, thereby allowing the EEOC officer to "deal with them".<br /><br />Racism hides behind legitimacy and logic...and even accusations of unfairness. That is what makes it so dangerous and practically impossible to kill. Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15369904006603461803noreply@blogger.com