There has been much discussion recently regarding income tax rates and the rate structure. Overhauling the income tax system is a popular promise our politicians are now making due to demand from their constituents. We will no doubt hear dueling overhauling ideas over the next few months until November 6 (which, apropos of nothing, is my 60th birthday). Citizens seem to believe that the system needs to be simplified because they are certain, or at least fear, that the current complexities result in their individually paying more tax than they would pay under a simpler system.
Or that they are paying an unfair portion of the total taxes collected under the current system. Or even that the government is hiding in this cloud of complexity, some dark deceptive secret that is sucking their soul out. The last one is not as popular as the other 2 but it's going around. There is no question in my mind that our income tax system is extremely complex.
Probably the radical overhaul that I hear favored by most people who button hole me at various occasions is the Flat Tax. The description of the flat tax system I hear most is "you just take one single rate for everyone and multiply it times your income". When I ask about deductions they say that there should be no deductions. The rates I hear favored are normally a rate less than the person I am talking to is currently paying, all the way down to 10%.
Arguing against the Flat Tax--
1. This country decided a long long time ago that it favored a progressive tax system; the highest marginal rates are levied on the higher income earners (a marginal rate being what rate you pay on the last dollar of income you make that year, so that if you made $200,000 your marginal rate would be the rate you paid on the 200,000th dollar). Right now our rate structure generally has six rates, 10, 15, 25, 28, 33 and 35. If your "TAXABLE INCOME" is $200,000 you are in the 33% tax bracket which means that the first $8,700 is taxed at 10%, the next $26,650 is taxed at 15%. The next $50,300 is taxed at 25% with the next $90,800 taxed at 28%. Finally the last $23,550 is taxed at 33% (though I don't intend to discuss this in this piece, note that though the taxpayer is said to be in the 33% bracket, only $23,550, about 10% of their TAXABLE INCOME, is actually taxed at 33%. This, I believe, is greatly misunderstood by the taxpaying public in general). In this example the taxpayer is single and has no income from stock ownership. I think when discussing the progressive tax rate, it is not enough to simply say "that's how we've always done it so we must keep doing it that way". The question is begged, do we believe that a progressive tax rate structure is desirable over a more regressive income tax, like the sales tax, or, like some countries have, a VAT (a single rate value added tax), or in this case a flat tax, and if so, why?
The desired result of a progressive income tax rate structure is to have the higher income earners pay a higher percentage of their income than lower income earners. Here is a link to a paper by Cornell's Robert H. Frank, The Progressive Income Tax, which speaks at great length about practical benefits of a progressive income tax rate structure from one economist's point of view. I found it to be very interesting and persuasive on the whole. But I don't think that the average citizen will give 2 hoots and a holler about what Robert H. Frank thinks. Many will be distrustful of him just because of his status in the academic world. And many will be distrustful because his conclusions are, to many, counter intuitive and therefore not "common sense".
I suspect that the reason we have had a progressive income tax from 1913 on is that it maximizes the revenues a government can collect while minimizing the amount of political protest. After all wealthy citizens have much more of what is called discretionary income and will feel the pinch of income taxes, if they feel it at all, to a much lesser extent.
And maybe, from an emotional, moral and ethical standpoint, Americans have had, throughout most of this country's history, a soft spot for the hard working but down trodden poor and "soon to be poor" and even the almost poor, all the way up to "I can see the almost poor from here". And so perhaps the progressive income tax rate structure appealed on that basis also. Placing all other matters aside, perhaps we felt that if the government needs to take revenue from its citizens, perhaps they should stay out of the pockets of "the little guy". The rich won't miss it near as much. No rich person will do without because they pay a heftier portion of the income tax.
I believe that there are good reasons to keep the progressive rate structure. Mr. Frank lays out a persuasive technical argument for it.
However, there are those that would say that the progressive rate structure is now a myth anyway, due to allowing differing rate structures for differing kinds of income. The 15% top rate on dividends and capital gains is the quintessential example that we have currently. When our R Presidential candidate is paying a14% effective rate, Warren Buffet, one of the richest people in the world is paying a 15% effective rate and our President is paying a 20% effective rate then one must question whether we have a progressive income tax system at this point. Many of us, with much less, pay a higher effective rate (an effective rate being the percentage of your taxable income being paid in taxes). If we take that as a sign that the progressive tax rate system is already gone anyway, then it is hard to use it as an argument against the flat tax. However, there are still a lot of wealthy people that derive their income from sources that are not capped at 15%. So, they are paying in the top marginal rate, now 35%. While not pure, we still maintain a progressive rate system. I would still maintain that, in spite of its impurity, there is still plenty of reason that the progressive rate system that we have is still superior to a flat tax system.
2. When people talk to me about the flat tax, as I said earlier, I always ask about the fate of deductions in their flat tax plan. Most say "no deductions". I usually counter "even for self employed people...no deductions for the costs and expenses incurred in earning the revenue? I would not be able to deduct my office expenses, computers and telephones and scanners and wages paid to employees and the cost of taking on extra contract labor when needed, office supplies, etc. etc.? Some say "well of course you could deduct those". Others actually say "no, no deductions of any kind." But either way you go there are huge pitfalls and unintended results.
If a business owner (and for purposes of this discussion I am leaving out businesses that must file a return of their own such as partnerships S Corporations and C Corporation) can't deduct the costs and expenses of doing business then, even if the rate is very low, there will be situations that will arise where a business has very large revenue, but for whatever reason, that particular year they lost money on a cash basis or some other generally accepted accounting method. That business would be hit with a large tax even though it lost money.
So let's say that we DO allow businesses to take deductions for their "ordinary and necessary" business expenses. The door is now open. We CPAs and the tax lawyers and just plain ol' smart people will be burning the midnight oil, and making lots and lots of money, figuring out schemes (tax planning) whereby a taxpayer can have a new business and deduct expenditures that would otherwise be considered personal expenses under the law. After all, they are now ordinary and necessary business expenses. TA DA! Maybe the schemes won't be allowed, so we'll think of some more and the government will have to expend a bunch of resources in policing and litigating tax law compliance. Well, there goes one of the strongest arguments in favor of the flat tax, ease of and less costly administration. To a great extent that kind of thing goes on under the current system. You can't take a tax deduction for a hobby loss. So my rich clients that want to play gentleman farmer have to tread very lightly because...NEWS FLASH...gentleman farmers lose a LOT of money. Over the years there has been developed through court rulings and Tax Regulations some safe harbors that these people can use. As long as they meet certain measurable criteria they can play gnetleman farmer and deduct the 1 or 2 or three hundred grand it costs per year. THAT is why I know what would happen even if you allow business deductions. Suddenly with a shift here and move over there those expenses are business expense. Again, TA DA!
3. Lastly, I would argue in favor of our current system, that as flawed as some of the laws are, at least we have flexibility in our ability to change it. I think we have changed it too much since 2000. Practically every year there has been major tax legislation. But sometimes change is very helpful, even necessary. And I see the inflexibility of the flat tax as a bad thing, even if there were nothing else wrong with it. With a flat tax where do you go from there but back to where we are now?
And I think there is no argument that tax law is a vital and powerful component in fiscal policy. The flexibility of having that powerful tool in the fiscal policy tool kit could make or break the country in some circumstances. It's a complex world we live in...even moreso than I can fathom. It's not 1780 anymore. We are not an agrarian society. Our government is not made up of a few slave owning gentleman farmers. We are the most powerful nation on Earth and in many ways that makes the world a lot smaller for us and a lot more complex than for most of the rest of the world (except in Alaska. That place is like brand new). Economics is more complex than ever in history. We are juggling a heck of a lot of balls in the air.
The Bankers and Fiduciary Club of Houston has a lunch every month that I used to go to. I hate stuff like that but business is business. They always have a speaker and sometime they even have one that is interesting. Dick Armey used to come and speak to us every now and then when he was a big shot in Washington in the 90s. I was a serious Republican back then so I was pretty impressed. Anyway, he would always harp on the flat tax and how it would solve all of our problems. There are a LOT of CPAs and tax lawyers in the organization who knew more about taxation then Dick Armey ever even dreamed of. And it was fun when one of them would take Armey on on this subject. It would get really tense because he was passionate about it...probably because he had invested so much of his time in speaking about it that he had kind of become synonomous with the subject. But after the first time he came and spoke about it I spent some time reflecting on the whole concept and what I would do as a tax professional if the country decided to go down that road. I told Marhsi, my wife, that if the country could ever come up with a better tax system that would do everything we need it to do, whether it was a flat tax or some other kind of tax, if it resulted in me having to change my work focus I would do it and be happy to do it. I never want to be one of those people that always "kicks against the pricks".
I have included a link below for a website which shows the income tax rate structure since 1913.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/fed_individual_rate_history_nominal&adjusted-20110909.pdf
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Monday, April 23, 2012
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I think that we have a progressive tax structure for the same reason Willie Sutton gave for robbing banks: "That's where they keep the money."
ReplyDeleteWhich is why the exemption from the progressive system that is the 15% top rate, vs a 35% top rate, on types of income which are virtually exclusive to "where they keep the money", has been so expensive at a time that we are financing 2 foreign wars, financing our general war on terror and financing a whole host of expensive projects. Did it cause the the massive deficits since? No. Did it make the deficits larger than they had to be, all other things remaining equal? Most economists agree that it did, though there is quite a large variation in the estimated amounts.
ReplyDeleteIf we were to let the Bush tax cuts expire at the end of the year, it would not technically be a tax increase, just an end to an extended drunken and ill-advised tax holiday and an end of the fantasy voiced by VP Chaney that "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Clearly there is a limit to that theory.
Are you opposed to a lower rate for investment income?
DeleteDo you reject the argument that with an investment you may not get a return and may even lose the capital?
It is not just the rich who profit from the capital gains rate. Any one who has a retirement plan that has money in the market does well by it. The effect of an IRA (loved by the middle class) is that the capital gain is not taxed at all.
The remark about Cheney was moved to a new post to avoid clutter.
DeleteWayne,
ReplyDelete1. Your question about whether investment income should be taxed at a lower rate is not a black and white one. I am not inclined to give dividends any kind of a tax break. It frustrates the whole progressive tax system, as mentioned in my original post, which I believe is a valuable part of our tax system. As far as whether or not taxing investment income at ordinary rates may cause one to lose their return or even the entire investment I’m not sure I buy that either. I certainly don’t see how taxing the income earned on an investment would cause one to “lose their entire investment”. I’ve seen a lot of things blamed for losing one’s entire investment, but not income taxes. Does taxing it reduce the return on investment? Certainly it does. That is why tax-exempt bonds can pay a lower interest rate than taxable investments and still attract investors. There are investment matrices that take taxes into consideration in calculating return on investment. It is one of many factors. Investing is a risky business, and there are a whole plethora of things that affect the rate of return and the value of one’s investment. Taxes are one of them, but certainly not the most daunting by any stretch of the imagination. A look at our tax law history shows that until 2001 dividends have NEVER been given special tax rate treatment. And, as mentioned in my original post, top rates have been up over 90% so it’s reasonable to assume that at least a few were paying a 90% tax rate on their dividend income. Yet, the investment community did not collapse, and the country prospered.
The main argument I hear in favor of taxing dividends at a lower rate is that “dividends are already taxed at the corporate level, so taxing the dividend receiver is double taxation.” It is a fact that the payment of dividends is not deductible by the corporations paying them and so they do indeed pay tax on that income. If that’s so crippling to the investment community then let the corporations deduct the dividends paid. Rs are always arguing that “corporations don’t pay tax. It is passed on to the consumer.” (My economics professors told me the same thing back in the olden days so it must be true huh?) If we let corporations deduct dividends paid then will the corporations lower their prices? I would love to find out. That would be a nice economic stimulus. Consumers would have more money to spend, demand for products would go up, businesses would have to hire, etc. etc. etc.
So yes, I am opposed to lower tax rates on dividends. We seemed to get along fine without it for 88 years, often with much higher top tax rates. Mostly I am opposed to it because of the mockery it makes of our progressive tax system. But I don’t have any reason to be averse to allowing corporations to deduct dividends paid. All corporations could benefit from it, so it would not harm the progressive corporate tax system.
I will reply separately on the other questions you have brought up and I really want to because there are some points that need to be clarified. I will discuss:
Long Term Capital Gains taxation
Taxation of IRAs and the wisdom of generating capital gains in a retirement plan.
My question, "Do you reject the argument that with an investment you may not get a return and may even lose the capital?" refers to the inherent nature of investing i.e. that you might lose it. There was no suggestion that it was taxation that would cause the loss.
DeleteI thought the reduced rate was, in part, a response to that.
I thought that there has long been a different rate for (long term) capital gains?
You are not mistaken that there has been a different rate for LT capital gains for quite awhile. I did not mean to suggest otherwise. In the original 1913 income tax code capital gains were taxed at ordinary rates. But through the years LT cap gains have received preferential treatment in the tax law, but not always through the rates.
DeleteThe reduced rate on dividends, which is what my post refers to, was primarily won with the double taxation argument.
I don't really understand the "dividends should be taxed at a lower rate because the investor could lose it all" argument. I had not heard that one. Why should the tax law be preferential to investing vs other money making endeavors? Investors invest for the same reason I work...to generate income, or to be more technically correct, increase wealth, but not only do I pay tax at ordinary rates, I also pay self-employment tax. No, I don't think that argument holds water.
The stock market is legalized gambling . You pays your money and you takes your chances.
Before I log out Wayne...I would hope that out of my entire original post, which covers a lot of ground, you found more to agree with than the lunacy of Cheney's statement about deficit spending.
ReplyDeleteOh, and another point you brought up that I want to discuss...Money Supply Expansion by the Fed and how that compares to deficit spending.
Well you put a lot in one place.
DeleteI know. I was just giving you a hard time. But in order to do justice to the subjects it is impossible, for me anyway, to keep it short. One of my pet peaves is that so many of us seem to form our judgements about the important issues of the day based on little more than bumper sticker fodder. These issues are complex, not that it requires that much intelligence to gain a workable understanding of them, but there is a lot to them.
DeleteYeah but in the future can we chop it up into multiple smaller posts. This is already getting unwieldy.
DeleteShouldn't our tax policy be constructed to give our corporations whatever advantage it can vis a vis foreign corporations?
So here is another corporate tax question. I'll strip it bare to get at the basic idea:
Suppose country A gets a lot of their income from a high vat tax ("a glorified sales tax") and has no corporate tax and country B has no vat tax and a high corporate tax.
When a corp in A ships stuff to B, then it has no corporate tax at home and no vat tax in B.
When a corp in B ships stuff to A, then it has to pay a corporate tax at home and a vat tax in B.